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Joseph Wheelan Education. (2012) 'Terrible Swift Sword the Life of General Philip H. Sheridan.'

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Sheridan 15, Washington 9, Us 7, Virginia 6, Indians 6, Buffalo 5, Strom Thurmond 5, Oregon 4, Chicago 4, Louisiana 4, Europe 4, U.s. 4, Oklahoma 3, South Carolina 3, Mexico 3, Lee 3, Winchester 3, Florida 3, Georgia 2, California 2,
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  CSPAN    Book TV    Joseph Wheelan  Education.  (2012) 'Terrible  
   Swift Sword the Life of General Philip H. Sheridan.'  

    November 22, 2012
    3:30 - 4:30pm EST  

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been left behind who later come to the u.s. to be reunited with their parents and we don't talk about how immigration breaks out families and and, you know, it takes a toll on the whole family. so this is one of the reasons why i wanted to write about this because, you know, it's something that is -- it's an experience that definitely scared me, that has really shaped the woman i am today, and then also it's an experience that i think right now with the dreamers, you know, with the young undocumented people who are fighting to get their legal status, i felt it was an important story in terms of giving people an inside to what their situation might be like and i touch upon the fact that, you know, my family benefited from the amnesty of 1980, i had a green card by the time i was
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14. so the moment i got my green card, you know, the whole world just opened up to me and there were so many possibilities that came my way that i was able to jump on because i had a green card. and i would really love to see this happen to the dreamers, you know, for us to give them that chance to pursue their dreams, to and also give back to society. because they will pay everything back the way i have been paying back through the writers and the work that i do. and i want to see that happen for them. >> and we have been talking talking with renee grande, "the distance between us." a memoir simon and shuster title. you're watching booktv on c-span2. tell us what you think about the programming this weekend. you can tweet us at booktv. comment on the facebook wall, or send us an e-mail.
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booktv, non-fiction bocks every day weekend on c-span2. joseph recounts the life of union philip -- robert e lee. the author recalls the military tactic and the postwar career which included command of the u.s. army. it's about 45 minutes. [applause] >> i want to thank coral ridge boobs for inviting me back and all the people to come out and hear about general fill sheraton of the try -- civilling war he was probably the least known of them. the other being grant and
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william sherman. in 1937, the three generals appeared together on a commemorative postage stamp, as part of a series honoring great u.s. military commanders. in the center grant to the right is sherman, and sheraton on grant's left. this is a appropriate because by the time civil war ended, sheraton was sometimes referred to as the left-hand of grant the left-handed. he was ten years younger than grant and sherman, he was a dynamo inspired his men with the intensity and by his personal leadership. he lead from the front. but he was also a careful planner, yet he was one who prompletly acted on a plan and once it was made and willing to change it, if the conditions changed on the battle field.
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but during the war, sheraton became a household name because of his great victory in the sheen know d.a. wally. especially at seeder creek. for waging what was called a total war there. he was one of grant's most dependentble generals. so much so during the closing day of the war, sheraton became the de facto commander of the army of the plateau few would dispute it was the most aggressive commanding general the union had. by grant and here here is monohe -- stone river tennessee sheraton's alertness and tenacity saved general krantz from ienllation.
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the cavalry core. he spend the last year of the war in virginia. during the plains indian war he was the army's top indian fighter. eventually became commander in chief of the army. and surprisingly phil here sheraton saved yellow national park from exploitation. sheraton grew up in ohio and graduated from west point in 1853. when the sieve civil war began in 1861 he was an on secure 30-year-old infantry cap talk about serving in the oregon territory. grant recognized sheraton's leadership ability in 1862 when
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sheraton was commanding a cavalry brigade that defeated a larger force in mississippi three months after shy shy low. in gnat knew -- in the tuition storm missionary ridge and pursued the confederates for hours when no one else did. granlt knew then that sheraton was much like him someone who would ability promptly, fight always, and never quit. with hundreds ever generals that served on both sides of the civil war, the description fit a handful. grant brought sheraton east with him when president lincoln appointed grant general and chief of all union forces. sheraton's first command was a cavalry corp. of the army during
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the overland campaign. union cavalry had improved a lot since the beginning of the war, but it was still being used primarily for scouting, guarding wagon training with, and patrolling picket lines. sheraton was determined to change that. with grant's blessings, he forged the karl i are corp. to an independent strike force. on may 1864, the troopers overwhelmed jeb stewart cavalry, stewart was wounded in the battle and died the next day. it was another hard blow to the confederacy. coming almost a year to the day after stone wall jackson's death. when he was president, grant once told the congressman that
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sheraton had no superior as a general living or dead and possibly know call. sheraton said grant was capable more than general ship he could manage a territory as lang as any two nations can cover in a war. but sheraton would never have risen so high nor have citiesover counties named after him without creeder creek. the circle in washington depicts sheraton of the touring war house. in the act of realing his army at -- and no command the new
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army of the shenandoah. sheraton's size contributed to the impression of youth that he projected. he was just 5'5", and only 115 pounds in 1864. but it's grant memorable replied to one officer who commented on sheraton diminutive statute, i think you'll find him plenty big enough for the job. just before sheraton's appointment, confederate general and 14,000 troops had marched down the shenandoah valley across the plateau mick to washington. it was a shock. capital was thrown to a panic. grant rushed troops to the city from his army outside peter berg and early withdrawal.
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they merged four military department with the new one with sheraton in charge of it. he was ordered to pursue army to the death and to destroy the shenandoah valley grain, produce, and livestock.
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on september 19, he attacked the army and defeated it at the third battle of winchester. three days later, sheraton's army followed up with the soaked victory at fisher's hill. after the two victories in september and sheraton did not expect an attack by the rebels. who are out numbered roughly two to one. a daybreak october 19, they launched a brilliant surprise attack literally catching the union soldiers sleeping. they routed the 34,000 men. after a quick breakfast he left winchester with the staff news of the debacle that was still
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unfondled in seeder creek had not reached him. riding south, he heard cannon fire as he and the team grew drew closer. reaching a hill top, he saw the magnitude of the gasser that had fallen the army who clad soldiers swarmed toward winchester. he stopped to waver the new move. he tried to reform a new line. most commanders would have thought only of damage at this point. they saw the fire mannedder on the war house men began to cheer. they threw their hats in the air. he road on shouting to his men they would whip the army that day and sleep in the camps that
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night. twice victorious, under sheraton's command they believed they turned back by the thousand and followed him. late that afternoon, sheraton counter attacked and smashed the army to pieces. confederate general wrote that the yankee rolled up like a scrow brigade after brigade were crushed crushed in rapid succession and the great commands crumbled to pieces and union forces controlled the shenandoah valley. in washington, citizens paraded by torchlight through the streets in celebration. standing at the open window under the white house president lincoln proposed three choirs for sheraton. two months early lincoln had dispaired of being reelected. grant shocking casualties during
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the overland campaign without a victory it's strength end the peace party but it had changed. sherman had captured atlanta and sheraton had beaten the rebel are army in the shenandoah valley. months after ceder creek. rejoin the the main army outside of peters berg. on april 1st, 1865, sheraton broke the eight-month seeing at peter berg at the victory five forks. the first clear cut triumph of the virginia campaign of 1864 and 1865. grant's army stormed in to peters berg the next day of the tattered army in northern virginia restrainted west. the pursuit lead by sheraton a week later ended at the court house on april 9th palm
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sunday. there sheridan, the cavalry and two infantry corps robert e lee's path to virginia's mountains. after the confederate surrender grant immediately send sheraton to louisiana and texas to force capitulation. by the time timeshare ton reached new orleans the army surrounded. so instead sheraton devoted his attention doing a second mission given him by grant. to lead an army to the rio grand river and men nice the french troops in mexico under the emperor max mill began. he had he had supported the con fed -- they were streaming to mexico seeking refuge. the state department opposed any action that might lead to war with mexico.
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so sheraton conducted a clan clandestine cold war arguably the first in u.s. history. he conducted conspicuous troop maneuver near the river and secretly provided mexican surgeons with weapon from the federal areson. due to the effort and to advance in europe the napoleon the third withdraw the support. the regime collapse and the mexican insurgent that sheridan had supported took control of the country. sheraton was the military govern of texas and louisiana during the early faces of reinstruction. the army commanders in the south were caught between congress harsh reconstruction policy and president andrew johnson's opposition to them. most of them kept a low
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profile. sheraton did not. urged on by grant, he alone removed to elected officials who defied congress' policies. fired scores of them. to the governor's of louisiana and texas. there indian warrior slaughtering settlers in western kansas and eastern colorado. it was here he began prosecuting with brutal effect for the decorate that -- strategy he implemented in the shenandoah valley, one of total war. as waged in the shenandoah valley. it was a milder form of the
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cruder -- they were in agreement that in inflicting suffering on southern civilians would more quickly end the bloodshed. in urging sheraton to conduct the war in the shenandoah, if the war is to last another year, we the valley to remain barren waste. he a barn full of wheat i would rather sooner lose the barn and wheat than my son. unlike the broader sill burning as it was called horrified and bittered valley residences. one described how the innovators
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came up the valley sweeping everything before them like a hurricane. there's nothing left from the horse down to the chick. en. raid the new settlement on the plains. they eluded, raped and burns, they killed man and carried off women and children. sheraton initially sent the cavalry after the raiders just as the predecessors had and the spring and summer it was an exercise in futile i. troopers could never catch them.
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most vulnerable and least expecting in the attack. an attacking indian villages he was acting as believe in the collective responsibility. in other words, civilians in support of the indian readers were copeble too. sheraton had one man in mind to lead the 1868 winner. had five forks in the sailor creek in -- sheraton raised through the ranks. just as grant had raised sheraton.
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as sheraton had become grant's go to what commander so had custard become sheraton's most dependable hard hitter. custard in 800 men from the seventh cavalry hit cheyenne chief black kennel camp on the river in present day oklahoma that daybreak november 27th, 1868, snow lay deep on the ground. and it was bitter cold. the indians were caught completely off guard. 103 were killed. then the troopers slaughtered 800 of the horses and burned the lodges, food, and supplies. sheraton's troopers pursue the cheyenne throughout the winter. the indians were pressed so hard they had lisle -- little time to hunt. they were kept on the move.
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they smashed the sewer plains indians. they were demonized in the eastern press for the ruthless tactics. but the western settlers held them as the saver yours. 1878, he was brought in again to help wage the pivotal campaign to force the northern plains indians. but the little big horn river in montana careless and overreached, thousands of northern plains indians pounced order hin him and the men and wiped them out. it was a shock to the nation. now even former critics of sheraton agreed. the indians must be suppressed at whatever cost.
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-- and burn the lodges. by summer 1877, nearly all the northern plains indians had surrendered at their reservations. they toured the battle field the year after the disaster. and try to understand how it did happen. he road court custard museum -- separate command. he was too impetuous without the liberation.
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the indian depended on bite son for the food, clothing and shementer if the buffalo would be wiped out. they would have to live on the reservation in order to eat. at the end of the civil war, more than 10 million buffalo still roamed the great plains. then german -- invented a process to turn them in to high grade leather. 1871 east coast began to pay premium prices for the buffalo hides. teams of buffalo hunters flooded the southern plains with the big 50 buffer low guns. and commenced widening out the great herds. in just a few years, the buffalo sphered from the southern plains. they tried to stop the slaughter. but sheraton, grant cab and here is monoblocked it. sheraton told the texas legislature the buffalo hunters
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two years to pass fie the indians than the army had done in thirty. texas should give each hunter a bronze medal with a dead buffalo on one side, and a discouraged looking indian on the other. adjust few thousand buffalo remained in the west. sheraton was one of the most successful warrior generally of the generation. there's another side to him. he believed in fairness. in texas and louisiana, after the civil war. he defended black friday. he had been the target of southern furry over losing the war. and many former con feduate state the turned a blind eye to the lynchings, beatings and burnings. sheraton, however, dismissed elected officials who doned mas
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consider of blacks in new orleans. he conducted what may be have been the first official act of racial inte ration -- integration in the house. wannishing separate streetcars in new orleans for black and whites. there was little -- in 1865 and 1866500 white men indicted for murdering blacks. not one of them was convicted. of texas sheraton memorable belie said if i owned hell and texas, i would rent out texas and live in hell. [laughter] when the plains indians were list overwhelmed and forced to live on the reservation, sheraton tried to defend them too.
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corrupter indian agent an contractors routinely stole their supply and exploited them. the government looked the other way. they repeateddedly advocating the letting the army manage the reservation. but they were fooled by the indian bureau and the contractors lobbiest, and congressional supporters. 1878 sheraton vice presidented the frustration to sherman. we have occupied the country, taken away the lovely domain, destroyed the herd, penned them up on reservation when and reduced them to poverty. for humanity's sake let's give them enough to eat and the integrity in the agent over them. sheraton questioned whether treaty and military campaigns had been the best way to deal with the plains indian. it might have been better, he wrote if sympathy had received
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kind treatment. yellow stone became the first national park. sheraton shown a keen interest in the region. he set four exe addition to the bark. the railroad development company turned out owned exclusive rights to 4400 acres on seven tracks. it wrote that yellow stone was being degraded by neglect they were killing thousand of elk each year as well as other game.
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they were vandalized. sheraton said the park should be protected. expanded reserve for the game. he called on congress to act and enlisted help from the sportsmen club around the country. he proposed using the army if necessary to keep out the hunters. the followings year senator george of missouri forked through an amendment through congress that reduced the area that could be developed in the park from 4400 achers to just ten. also under the bill, the army could be deployed as last resort to protect the park. that is exactly what happened in 1886, when northern pacific allies zeroed out the park budget and park rangers stopped receiving paychecks. in august of 1886, sheraton --
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the cavalry to the park to operate it until further notice. the army did so for the next 32 years. until the new national park service took over in 1918. in 1884, general of the army william sherman retired in phil sheraton exceeded him as the army commanding general. ..
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he wrote there was one exception unequal to the task of combining the arms of battle. the exception was shared in. henderson said that sheridan's operations during the shenandoah valley during the confederate army deserved a course of study. the pioneers of the 20th century
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armored warfare had operations that sheridan in battle. tanks were placed calvary and a new element was introduced. the war plan. beyond those innovations, it is probably best remembered for strategical unpractical aggressiveness. a style of warfare practiced through the years of generations of american leaders. fittingly, one of those practitioners, theodore roosevelt presided at the dedication of sheridan's 14-foot high statue in washington in november of 19 away. president roosevelt told the crowd sheridan, as he put it, shared his greatness with
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genius. [applause] >> i'm happy to take any questions. i am sure there are some. >> [inaudible question] >> yes, it is. there is a very good reason for that. all of the tapers were burned in the great chicago fire of 1871. the great chicago fire wiped out
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the headquarters. we don't have that much to go on. we have to rely heavily on people who served with him that the autobiographies official record of the civil war, of course, he wrote his personal memoirs that he had papers after that point. so i think that is probably one of the main reasons for the material. >> i don't know anything about sheridan, but it raises the question that i've had for a long time. which is the generalship of the confederacy was so poor compared to the eastern society, they had faced the same kind of general is confederate issues.
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>> it is possible, yes. all the generals in the west were not that great. so many of the good ones came out of virginia. and they defended their state. when grant came east, you know, he was hailed as being a great general in the west. everybody said that he had been based robert lee yet. and that proved to be the case. he had a tough time during his campaign. yes? >> with your input of what happened, i've never understood [inaudible] it does not make a lot of sense.
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you have anything to do with this? >> he did with geronimo. geronimo was the last to give up. and he gave up and he went back home and then he gave up again and went back out. so sheridan wanted to stop.read so he decided that the best thing to do would be to ship him to florida, so that is what they did. and there is a photo in the book. they eventually went back, they ended up on the oklahoma reservation after a couple of years in florida. but he had direct input into that. as far as the other reservations, not so much. that was a policy made by the department of the interior and that is why the army wanted to get control of it, because they thought they could do a better job and keep better track of everybody and treat them more
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fairly. yes, sir? >> can you tell us a little bit about sheridan's personal life? >> yes. he was in his early 40s. he married the daughter of daniel rucker, who is a master general to sheridan's department division in missouri. met her during the great chicago fire. irene and ham lost their home. so they stayed with sheridan and their brother at their home. they were married and ended up having $3 in the sun.
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they were married and had three daughters and a son. they had a very happy marriage. they all moved to washington where he became the general in chief. but before that, he did not have a home life -- his life was beyond that. >> he was ex-mayor of chicago, was it just northerners or was it southerners in manifest destiny, to. >> they were into it too. most definitely. >> with regard of the south being out more? >> yes, they were because before the war, they hoped to get more to keep the balance in congress and everything. the great majority, i would say,
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just because of where the population was, they all came in to the northeast. they went from the northeast to the midwest and on out. but there were some southerners as well. >> yes, sir? >> have you ever been approached about running for political office? >> i think it was mentioned. never had any interest in it at all. and i think that he was kind of rough around the edges. sherman was highly intelligent and polished and from a good family. and he was solicited.
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there were some biographers that i read that think that sheridan was born in ireland but then he said he was born in albany new york. you know, just in case he wanted to run, you know, i think he might've been born in ireland. i think there is strong evidence that he was. but he came over on the vote. but i think that he gave his birthplace as albany, new york. there was such a bias against the irish when he went to west point in 1848. at the hyatt of the immigration and the potato famine and the million irish came over. and i think he didn't want to be
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captive as an irish immigrant. >> that he aspired to be a governor of two states? and under whose authority? >> well, he hadn't thought the authority under congress' reconstruction policies, and he did, actually. he did because they refused to cooperate. after he fired the governor of texas, he was removed. [laughter] >> they are like the alamo of the nation. >> yes, they were catholic, most
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definitely. >> did he get involved in the inquiry afterwards? >> no, i don't think that he did get involved in that. he is in charge of a division in the fact that the department -- i've never seen anything on that before. >> [inaudible question] >> it's close to that. they say that was an old saying in the west. he was down in oklahoma. and he was introduced to an indian chief and he said
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so-and-so is a good indian. and sheridan looked at him and said the only good indians i have ever seen were dead ones. [applause] and somehow, it ended up in the newspapers about the time when the army was involved in this horrible attack in montana on the wrong indian village, something like 150 indians or something. so it really looked back. >> yes, sir? >> many of the generals on both sides were able to get some of the experience on both sides. where do these leadership abilities come from at such an early age? >> well, when they were trying to suppress the indians in oregon and washington, they called it the oregon territory, it was actually washington state. and he had some small unit
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operations along the columbia river. and he also managed an indian reservation on the pacific coast of oregon as well. so he had some experience there. but he started off small in mississippi and he was given command of the calvary regiment. and then he evidently just shared his ability with training and what little experience you had. he had been in the army a long time by then. >> was a part of the calvary? >> no, he wasn't. the only calvary he commanded was under the army of the potomac and the army of the chairman in virginia. when he was in the west, he was
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in charge of an infantry division, stones river at missionary ridge. >> in regards to history, do you have another book in mind? >> yes, i am working on a civil war book. it is more focused on the 40 days, grant's campaign against lee. the siege of petersburg. that is my current project. >> was he married with children when he was sent to meet with them? >> no. that was about five years before he was married that was an
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interesting episode that i did not get into. he went to europe to observe the franco war. he was an observer and his traveling companion was out of bismarck. and he sat in on all the meetings and the high command witnessed all the big battles, which the french were crushed about. during this time, the germans, the russians, encountered something they hadn't before, which was activity in the villages. they were sniping at soldiers on the road, the troops and the towns, and anyway, sheridan, one
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night with his mark in some of the high command, we don't know how to deal with this because in their view, they were still wed to the old 18th century view of the battle between armies who were left out. sheridan told them that you have to involve the civilians as well. it will shorten the bloodshed and you should leave the people with nothing but their eyes to weep with. that is what he told them. and they were very shocked. they really were. and he said, if you were in the village, that is what he would
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do. they ponder this a lot. bismarck implemented this policy and they started doing this retaliation. so he did have an effect there. after that, he became part of the officer's manual for the german army in 1992. i go into that in the book. >> what's that? >> yes, they carried it far beyond. but before the 18th century, that is how war was conducted in europe. civilian soldiers, they would burn the villages and kill everyone. they would turn them into slaves. it was horrible.
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but then the nationstate in europe, these professional armies would go out and there would be casualties and they would go back and they would negotiate. that is what the prussians are used to. >> [inaudible question] >> no, i think it will be a balanced approach -- graham is definitely a prime mover of this campaign. but in his corps commanders, how they reacted, they very ably defended themselves against overwhelming numbers with a very skillful defense down to virginia. it would be kind of a balance
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put it. [applause] >> thank you. >> this is a little bit politically incorrect, but i was wondering about the actions of sheridan and what are considered war crimes now. >> war crimes? well, certainly what they did on the great plains would be war crimes. what they did in georgia in the shenandoah valley, i'm not so sure. they tried to save civilian lives. the purpose was to destroy resources and their ability to wage war. i think that would be arguable. but certainly a very good point.
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[applause] >> every weekend, booktv offers programming focus on nonfiction authors and books. watch it here on c-span2. >> i want to talk to you today about my book. strom thurmond's america. i want to begin by telling you a story. now, when you go and do research in south carolina, and you go into the archives and people ask what you're interested in writing about, and you tell them strom thurmond, they say oh, let me tell you my story about strom thurmond. somebody always has a great
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story. the time that they saw him do something crazy, that kind of thing, my story begins in late july of 1992. and i am on a flight from washington dc to charlotte, north carolina. and i had been an intern at summer up on capitol hill. one of my regrets of the summer was that i had never seen strom thurmond. all of my fellow interns said you have to see him. he has such an unusual appearance about him. i had no idea what they meant by that. but i had my suspicions. i'm on the flight and i look ahead of me and i see a man who has orange colored hair, so brightly colored, and this first-generation kind of hair plugs. and i think to myself, that must be what his head looks like.
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of course, i knew that when people were reaching over. i wanted to shake his hand as well. i had been in washington dc that summer for the first time and met all of these politicians that i saw on tv. and i got to go home and speak to my dad's rotary club, and i wanted to tell them about the famous people that i met in washington dc. and so i was going to try to shake his hand when i got off the plane. but when i got off the plane, there were people already lined up to shake his hand. and i did not get in line. and i'm not a south carolina and in the to be honest, i was a little self-conscious. there were a lot of different kinds of people there and i was content about a man who is well known for his segregation and i thought it was good enough to
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say that i had seen him and to keep on walking. so then i am conflicted. and i walked down the concourse about 100 yards, and i look back, and everybody is shaking his hand. here is the 89-year-old man, he has a briefcase in one hand and a travel bag in another and a package under one arm and he is just going down this busy crowded airport. without thinking, i go back and introduce myself. and i said i would be happy to help you and he said, are you sure you have enough time. i don't want to delay you. and i said i have fun in time. so i picked this up and we walked together for about 10 minutes. and i was just trying to make conversation as i told him about all the people i had met that summer and he said nice things about the various colleagues i met. i told him i was on my way and
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had a girlfriend from florence, south carolina. so i shook his hand again and that was it. that story is really a metaphor for the difficulty i had been the challenges i faced in writing about this very controversial figure. you know, there is no easy or straightforward way to write about a figure as controversial as him. sometimes as i read the book, i wonder if some of the stuff is not another effort on my part to carry his baggage. goodness knows he has baggage that needs carrying. but the other challenge, the real challenge i had was to fight the urge not to simply
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walk away and meet demand face-to-face and present him as a three-dimensional character. so that is the challenge that i face. what i wanted to do, really, was to write a history of strom thurmond's america. in a critical but dispassionate way, in a way that would shed light on some of the issues that have shaped each of our own american lives today. i hope that in doing so you can add a sense and a measure of reason and passion to these issues that in boreal our politics today and divide us. that was the goal. that was the mission. but what are the big issues? what are the big issues that this speaks to? well, a lot of us remember who
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he was. he was the 1948 dixiecrat presidential candidate. he was one of the lead authors of the 1956 southern manifesto, which was the protest of the supreme court decision in the brown versus board of education in 1964. he was the recordholder to this day of the longest one-man filibuster. twenty-four hours and 18 minutes he spoke against the 1957 civil rights bill. we remember him as one of the last of the jim crow demagogues. and he was one of those. what we forget about him is that he was also one of the first of the sun belt conservatives. what do i mean by that? well, it is the major story in
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the history of 20th century american politics. that is the flow of jobs and industries and resources and populations from the states of the northeast and the midwest to the south and the southwest in a personal period. southern states were recruiting industries and the right to work laws. they were receiving lots of funding from the federal government at a time when the united states was involved in a cold war with the soviet union. states like georgia and texas and florida and other california and north carolina were all being transformed in the post-world war ii period by this historic shift of influence. from 1964 until 2008, it was a period of sun belt dominance.
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if you think about every president elected from 1994 until 2008, comes from the state of the sun belt. richard nixon from california, gerald ford was never elected, he was never even elected vice president. so there you go. jimmy carter, ronald reagan, bill clinton from arkansas and bush from texas. the 2008, it ends with forty-year period. and there were issues that were critical into politics that came out of the sun belt. also, it is on the sun belt and in the south and southwest that we see the lives by the 1970s